Sellsius - Latest Comments in NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Nurse Staff — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:35:49 -0000

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:22:49 -0000

Absolutely.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

ziaobxtweets — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:28:07 -0000

"Charitable" includes volunteering outside our industry; offering help or a tip or more without intent to solicit business spreds market information, interprets market conditions and, in the end, calms the local market's psyche. So many hours spent with those who don't realize they are equal and deserve the opportunity to contribute to their local economy / market and their self worth improves life....sound like another interpretation of Pro Bono to me.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:55:05 -0000

@bob

BTW, I love your idea about putting pro bono brokers and attorneys together. Maybe we can do it here: http://goodsamrealestate.com/

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:33:52 -0000

Yes she does.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:33:22 -0000

Yes, I agree that charity ought come from the heart. (It feels better)

Perhaps showing the charitable work real estate professionals are doing will change the public perception of the profession. Perhaps not-- but I'd rather think positively that it will. It may also encourage others to be creatively charitable. Let's try it and see.

Charity or cause marketing does work. You don't have to announce it if you don't care to-- those who are the beneficiaries of your good work will spread the word, as will witnesses.

BTW, I appreciate your good works. You don't have to tell anyone; I will. Why? Because good works, and those that do it, should be celebrated. Just my opinion.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Bob Wilson — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:09:34 -0000

Carolyn gets it.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Carolynn Santaniello — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:00:44 -0000

This is an interesting concept, but it has to come from the heart not an effort to change the public's perception of our profession. When I close a client who is financially stable I give to the charity of their choice rather than giving them a gift. I had considered making it part of my marketing that I will give a portion of my commission to the charity of my client's choice, but considering the economy I think many of my first time home buyers consider themselves a worthy charity. I also have trouble using philanthropy as marketing.

I would participate in a no fee deal per year, but as I said it would be from my heart, not an effort to make myself stand out. What are your thoughts?

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:47:51 -0000

http://www.floridarealtors....

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:31:00 -0000

Why have a COE if you think it serves no purpose?

I believe it does, to real estate agents and brokers who take the profession seriously. If they don't take it seriously, I say we enforce your COE Article 2: Find a different industry.

Fear of the pro bono police is not reason enough to convince me to exclude what we agree is "doing what's right, when and where appropriate".

Charity police by NAR? That's just plain laughable. They will instead celebrate the instances where pro bono service changed lives, increased business and raised respect for the industry. Makes more sense than arresting non-compliers.

"Positive thinking will let you do everything better than negative thinking will." ZIg Ziglar

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Bob Wilson — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:48:35 -0000

If you are against forced pro bone, then why add it to the code. If you are against forced "do what is right", then why a Code at all?

You and I see this as 'more like guidelines'. NAR does not. My objection is leaving anything subjective up to NAR.

By my definition of ethical behavior, a vast number of real estate contracts written in CA are unethical, clearly violating the fiduciary duty owed to the buyer. The primary example of this is where the buyer's agent insists on having the buyer remove their contingencies, instead of waiting for the seller to issue a notice to perform (most sellers dont as they are afraid of losing the buyer).

This 'sales tactic' is pushed by brokers and even NAR endorsed trainers.

I guess if I really examine this issue, I see the COE as utterly useless as a tool to improve public perception. It didn't do anything to prevent the abuses of many who supposedly adhere to the code simply because they write a check to NAR every year.

The reason I have a problem with the symbolic issue here is that I believe that many will stop there, content with the token gesture they can point to and hide behind.

I would prefer a separate group that advocates this from the broker level. One where the ability for an agent to do this facilitated. Where the broker is a stakeholder in the act. Waiving the split, absorbing or splitting the E&O premium, etc.

NAR cant change the perception of the industry with a token gesture. The industry has to do it on their own with real actions, apart from NAR.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:32:15 -0000

"When and where appropriate"

I take that as a yes to my questions re: full rebate under your "do right" COE.

So, if under your COE, a rebate of all your commission, when and where appropriate, is "doing right" (and also "doing no harm"), that appears to be noble and charitable. It appears to be pro bono. Hence, we seem to be in agreement on "doing right" being ethical and capable of including pro bono acts.

Where we seem to disagree is you prefer a COE that says "do what's right" and not pro bono because it will make pro bono forced behavior (hmm..doing right sounds forced too). I think if it is forced, there is no debate as I am against forced pro bono (and forced "do what's right" under your code).

"Adding it to the Code is merely symbolic."

Hmm.. I can live with that. Can you?

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Bob Wilson — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:55:17 -0000

When and where appropriate. Perhaps my version needs a rewrite to add "Do no harm".

The point is that there doesn't need to be a provision to do something good for another. Many people do and many people dont. It happens every day in this business. Those that live this way tend not to advertise it.

I would prefer to see you leverage the likes of Sherry Chris. Her comment, "I think it runs deeper than an addition to the Code of Ethics, it begins with developing core business values at the individual agent and broker level.", is the key.

Adding it to the Code is merely symbolic.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:39:42 -0000

And the answers to my question re your "act right" COE are...

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Bob Wilson — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:24:15 -0000

@Joe:

[Perhaps I am naive to think real estate professionals are more akin to legal professionals than software makers in the heights to which their ethical principles should rise and be acknowledged in their respective Codes of Ethics.]

The problem with this type of communication is that I can't see if you wrote that with a straight face.

If one needs proof that pro bono work has nothing to do with ethics, morals and character, you only need to look at the number of attorneys fronting loan mod companies that have ripped off 1000s of desperate homeowners.

[BTW, there is no pro bono police force to judge your charity, contemplated in my proposal. ]

Then, with apologies to Captain Barbossa, in your opinion, "the code is more of what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules".

However, we know that not to be true. We have boards and mls entities suing agents and policing and shutting down their online businesses, using the "violating the NAR COE" as the authority to do so.

[If it is in the COE you have created the opportunity for it to be exercised.]

No. The Code does nothing to create opportunity. More importantly, it does nothing to facilitate it once the opportunity has presented itself. As one mentioned earlier, we have E & O concerns. We also have large brokers where fee upon fee has been added to the transaction, by the broker, to be passed to the buyer or seller. Buffett's Pru Cal in SoCal is an example. I believe there was a lawsuit in Georgia over this as well.

It took a court a to force a brokerage to stop this. Was not that type of behavior (charging a fee for doing nothing extra) already covered by the Code? The Code cant keep these guys from overcharging, yet you think it will do something in the opposite direction - working for free (in the eyes of the broker)?

If you want to change perception, you dont make it forced behavior from the top down. You have the industry players (not NAR), create the mechanism to facilitate it. You need the big brokers to be willing to waive the commission (remember, its paid to the broker, not the agent).

Take it a step further and meld your industry pro bono work with mine. Provide me a list of attorneys by state who are willing to represent homeowners pro bono and we'll match them up with brokers and their agents who want to handle the real estate part pro bono.

I have donated commissions (less the broker split and fees), painted houses, built rooms, etc for many clients over the years. I didnt need an industry code to do so. What would help is for the industry to make it easier for me to do so again.

The biggest problem with this debate is that to oppose it based on it being a part of the COE is that the response is like being asked "Are you still beating your wife"?

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 10:23:15 -0000

@Bob Wilson: "Noble and charitable have nothing to do with being professional or ethical."

IMO, each profession ought to decide the parameters of its own ethical or moral character. If you think pro bono work, though noble and charitable, should not be an ethical principle for the real estate professional, by all means, leave it out. Perhaps I am naive to think real estate professionals are more akin to legal professionals than software makers in the heights to which their ethical principles should rise and be acknowledged in their respective Codes of Ethics.

[Re: Buffet and Gates, I am unfamiliar with their written Code of Ethics.]

Under your COE, Article 1, is it "right" to rebate a portion of your commission to the client? If it is right, is it right to rebate the whole thing? If so, then perhaps your simple COE has a pro bono provision contained in the word "right." I applaud it.

"You don't dictate or legislate character based behavior. You create opportunity for it to be exercised."

Exactly. If it is in the COE you have created the opportunity for it to be exercised.

[BTW, there is no pro bono police force to judge your charity, contemplated in my proposal. ]

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Bob Wilson — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 23:32:58 -0000

Noble and charitable have nothing to do with being professional or ethical.

Would you define Warren Buffett as professional? Prior to Bill Gates convincing him to donate much of his fortune to charity, Buffett was considered by many to be a stooge based on the amount of his charitable giving. Gates, on the other hand, has been sued and chastised as being ruthless in business, but he has given more than any man in history.

You are going about this wrong. You don't dictate or legislate character based behavior. You create opportunity for it to be exercised.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:53:47 -0000

Quite rightly, charity is a noble act to a fellow human being. Should not a Code of Ethics include it to help define a professional?

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

Bob Wilson — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:08:50 -0000

I dont need a Code of Ethics to dictate charity. I have done a lot of pro bono work thru the years. Part of the satisfaction is knowing you did something for the right reasons, not for accolades or to meet a quota. I certainly do not want to see my choice of "Do pro bono work" to be scrutinized on an ethical level by the same clowns who tell me I am unethical because I say "Search MLS listings" on a website.

My suggestion is that we rewrite the Code Of Ethics entirely. In fact, I already have. Here it is. feel free to reprint and distribute:

Article 1
Do what is right.

Article 2
If you need a definition of Article 1, find a different industry.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:58:04 -0000

My profound thanks. I know where your moral compass points. (your clients must know it too)

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

timandjulieharris — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:29:33 -0000

As promised...
http://timandjulieharris.co...

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:14:33 -0000

If you don't mind.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

timandjulieharris — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:06:03 -0000

Hi,

Please send me this post with enough alterations so that Google does tag it as DUP content....if you don't have time to do this...I can write and intro on our blog that leads to your post.

You tell me.
Tim

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

jfsellsius — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:02:37 -0000

Sure. Take what you need.

Re: NAR Must Add Pro Bono Provision to Realtor Code of Ethics

timandjulieharris — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:34:10 -0000

Would you be interested in re-posting a version of this on our blog?
http://www.TimandJulieHarri.......

Links backs etc?

In any way that we can..we would love to see your intention become the new way of thinking for our industry.
Tim